Diolch, Lywydd. Thank you, Minister. Wales's economy is, and always has been, one of extraction. It's an economy designed to export our resources for little or no reward, while private companies, mostly from the other side of the bridge, rake in the profits. People in Wales, therefore, live in poverty, and are affected by everything that poverty brings with it. We have a massive economic, social and climate change opportunity that is with us at the moment. Wales has a massive green energy potential. It's an opportunity to buck this pattern and to break the chains that we currently have.
Many Welsh community energy initiatives have already seized this opportunity, reversing the outflow of energy and retaining wealth in Wales. Volunteers typically spearhead these initiatives. We, as a Government, must support them, as this sometimes can be a complex process. By providing communities with ready-made turnkey community energy solutions, we can change things. We can enable communities to embrace new green technology, to consume locally produced energy and to embed—
Contributions
21 contributions on record. Newest first, by sitting day. Page 1 of 1. Counted by Siambr
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I will. What consideration has the Cabinet Minister given to such a turnkey Government-supported approach to community energy? Thank you.
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Thank you. Cabinet Minister, Wales's NHS is totally dependent on Microsoft's cloud-based services, and so are the rest of our Government's departments. Put simply, this means that the operations of our NHS could be switched off with the flick of a switch, causing chaos. In today's uncertain world, the need for resilient digital systems and infrastructure is greater than ever. The European Commission recently adopted the technological sovereignty package, a set of strategic measures to reduce dependency on non-European tech suppliers and to invest in open-source software, strengthening digital autonomy, sovereignty and ownership. Several states and regional administrations across Europe are already moving to open-source and locally hosted solutions. Can the Cabinet Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government will improve our NHS digital resilience and on safeguarding controls of Welsh systems data, ensuring that our NHS cannot ever be held to ransom and to maintain the ownership of all the systems data in Wales where it belongs?
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Thank you. Cabinet Minister, I was delighted to hear your announcement two weeks ago, including the launch of the Wales interim measures alarm grant and your commitment to holding negligent developers to account. Two weeks ago, I met with Swansea Point Owners and Residents Association, an incredibly inspiring Swansea residents association, who are fighting tooth and nail to get justice for those living in fire-unsafe buildings. Holding negligent developers to account is a tough battle. We expect them to delay, defend and deny at every opportunity possible. What makes this tougher again is, from my understanding, an inadequate fire safety legal landscape that we've inherited from the previous Labour Government—one full of loopholes, exceptions and edge cases, making it easier for developers to evade justice. Cabinet Minister, would you please state how you're going to make sure that developers do not evade accountability and that the victims of fire-unsafe buildings get the justice they deserve as soon as possible?
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The Welsh Rugby Union tells us that the Scarlets or the Ospreys must go because Welsh rugby is not financially sustainable. I, from Gŵyr Abertawe, want to ask the question to the WRU, 'Why?' Why is Welsh rugby so financially unsustainable? Given the massive implications of axing a region, the answer to this question should be public knowledge. Instead, their finances and decisions are in a total black box. There is no good reason to believe that a professional Welsh rugby body, if managed correctly, would not be financially sustainable—of course it can be successful. But if the Welsh Rugby Union want us to believe rugby in Wales is not sustainable, they must ensure that we have full—full—transparency. I would like to thank the Member for bringing the matter to debate and the words that were said a few moments ago. No rugby region deserves to be axed. However, we must face the fact, the reality, that the WRU is an independent body, independent from the Welsh Government, and is responsible for its own governance. A motion calling for the Government to ensure that all four regions are retained is not much more than a political points-scoring exercise as it stands. However, it doesn't help the regions at the moment whatsoever as it stands like that. What we must do is unite across parties, demanding meaningful accountability and transparency from the WRU. This is what will protect the legacy of Welsh rugby in Wales. I thank the Cabinet Minister for Culture and Sport for engaging with the WRU so far, stressing the huge concerns held by players, coaches, staff, volunteers and fans about the implications of axing a region. The WRU need to understand that the game belongs to the people and not the board. The financial sustainability of sport ultimately comes down to two things—how it's managed and how it's marketed. Both responsibilities currently lie with the WRU. The WRU's deliberate financial and decision-making secrecy makes judging them on their own merits impossible. But what we can do is compare them to other rugby nations, Ireland for example. In 2024-25, Ireland's rugby union reported around £86 million of revenue; the WRU somewhere in the region of £106 million. With less money and a bigger population, you'd expect Ireland's international team to lag behind, but obviously it's completely, totally, the opposite. Ireland's men rank third in the world, and the women fifth. Neither of Wales's two teams, men and women, could crack the top 10, meaning that the Welsh Rugby Union's Ymlaen Cymru strategy for both teams to be in the top five is completely and totally disconnected with reality. Ireland are far outperforming Wales despite having around £20 million per year less to spend. So, what gives? Why is that happening? If the issue is purely financial sustainability, we must ask why Ireland doesn't have the same issues as us here in Wales. Wales, therefore—. Axing one of the four regions is not the only answer; it cannot be the only answer. It's the lack of transparency from the Welsh Rugby Union that makes it impossible for us to give an answer, leaving us to rely on the word that comes from the board. If the Welsh Rugby Union want us to believe that rugby is unprofitable, then show us the numbers, show us the reasons, show us the rationale that they base this on—it's as simple as that. If there's nothing to hide, why are they hiding? People across Wales, the rugby world, feel completely and totally in the dark. The fans feel alienated. The Welsh Rugby Union are meant to be the stewards of the grass roots. The Welsh Rugby Union have become nothing but a bloated corporate body managing the game's slow decline.
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They are cutting costs instead of continuing the game's legacy. If we are to save the game, we need to act as one in this Chamber today. It has to be cross-party. This debate is about money, yes, decisions, yes, but it's also health and happiness.
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It's so much more. Rugby defines us; it's in our blood, it's in our soul, it's in our DNA.
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The Welsh Rugby Union are at risk of destroying all this. The only ones who can change it are us here today in the Chamber. So, I hope all of us realise that that's what we need to do.
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9. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ei drafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar sicrhau cyllid teg i Gymru? OQ64457
Official English translation
9. Will the First Minister provide an update on his discussions with the UK Government on securing fair funding for Wales? OQ64457
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I funded businesses for over 40 years. To succeed, a business needs two things, essentially: the ability to borrow and the ability to save. Running a country is no different. Without the financial tools to construct a functioning economy, Wales will continue to be poor. Is this the Wales that we all want for our children? Wales is being pickpocketed. You mentioned about rail. HS2: we're footing the bill for infrastructure projects in England whilst ours crumble. And why? The Barnett formula gives us less per head than our Northern Irish and Scottish counterparts. Why? Demanding fair funding is not us taking the begging bowl to London, nor is it grievance politics. It's common sense and the bare minimum to stop ingrained, intergenerational poverty, which plagues Wales. It doesn't have to be this way. We have the entrepreneurs, we have the people, the skills and the resources. Wales can be prosperous. First Minister, following your meeting yesterday with the Ministers of Northern Ireland and Scotland, would you please outline your long-term vision of what a real Government can achieve economically in Wales with the right economic levers?
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Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Minister, it's difficult—it is always difficult—to follow Gwyn. In some ways, he's always been my warm-up act, but I've always been a flop. [Laughter.] Some of the people that spoke today have been absolutely fantastic with their lived experiences, and it shows the depth of the problems that exist. In a very minor, minor way, I ended up having to go to England to have an operation about eight years ago, because my eyesight got so bad for a number of reasons. I had new lenses put in and I just couldn't work. It reached the point that I couldn't work. So, these things really do matter, and they improve life dramatically. A few things about Gwyn. Gwyn, obviously, knows exactly what he's talking about, the same as Safa, and what possibly people also know is he's really passionate about what he does. However, as an ophthalmologist, he is one of the top people that you would ever get. He travels internationally to show how to do things, and he does also go abroad to help wherever he can. So, in that respect, what he's pushing here really, really does need support, and I'm glad everybody so far has come this way. I'm going to be a bit of a damp squib. Everybody's talked so well, and, just like James said, there's no real point in pushing those things over and over and over again. What I'm going to do is bring it down to brass tacks. The whole thing, apart from being absolutely fantastically wonderful to do it, it is essentially something that's going to save the NHS money, it's going to produce huge amounts more productivity, and, as a lovely by-product, it's going to affect so many people's lives. Plaid Cymru have a fantastic part in our manifesto, which is essentially the hubs—the place where specialists can stand alone beyond all the battle that's going on in the NHS, where they can focus, and they can rely on predictable methods, because people are coming in, everything's controlled, which lead to the productivity gains. These are the simple things that really change. What you do is you get more people through, you get more pleasant working, because it isn't that stress that you've got in accident and emergency, and people can focus on the specialisms, and therefore everything increases in terms of the ability to do what you can do. Substantial productivity gains offered by surgical hubs, which is what we're proposing, Minister, is something I've experienced quite recently. My wife had an operation, and the ability to move through the process is so slick. It's like a production line; that's the only way I can describe it. So, it actually does work. Implementing this across Wales is, without doubt, the solution to the problems that we have. Surgical hubs also mean there's less outsourcing; we're saving money. I had to go private when I went to England to get it done, but other people will have to—. Previously, Labour have been paying quite heavily for treatment to be outsourced and for people to have operations privately but paid for by the NHS, which isn't anywhere near a long-term solution. Staff retention in the NHS and in this particular area as well is massively difficult, and the very fact that you've got good working conditions, you've got high productivity and happy people means that you're going to have better productivity just as a result and people will want to stay. Safa mentioned in a talk a few days ago that, of a cohort of seven ophthalmologist doctors coming into, I assume, Singleton Hospital, within a very short time, four of them had left, just because the systems were dysfunctional, they weren't happy. And it really does make a difference. This doesn't just affect health, but also can affect what we do outside. You've got people who are far more productive. With me, I could not work, I couldn't drive, and from knowing that I couldn't even see colour, all of a sudden, being able to see colour and a clock on the wall was mad—totally mad. But these things do change people's ability to be productive so, so much and it had a huge impact on me. The brain drain that we've got because these doctors are leaving here, we just cannot allow to happen. In my opinion, the hubs that we have and the ways and the systems that we have to work will facilitate people to be happier and to stay.
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Yes, okay. I would like, possibly, Minister, for you to consider—. Possibly three hubs, I've been told, may be coming for eyes—I don't know. But, as a Swansea Jack, I'd like to put my hand up for one, and the reason for that is, apart from Gwyn and Safa being around and the specialisms that we've got, it's the geography and the transport that we can cope with in west Wales. Swansea health board has lost or is in the process of losing 800 jobs—
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Okay. I'll finish on the basis that eye care here can transform people right across Wales, and it's a win-win position, both from a care perspective and from an economic perspective. Thank you.
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Thank you, First Minister. Swansea faces dire economic circumstances. Last year, Swansea lost 1,349 jobs. That's a 1.3 per cent contraction in the workforce. Since Labour took control in Wales, Swansea's gross value added per capita dropped from 85 per cent in 1999 to 78 per cent in 2023. Meanwhile, Cardiff is at 120 per cent. The differential between Swansea and the UK, and Swansea and Cardiff, is huge. Westminster has announced Pride in Place funding to support communities in Swansea—£20 million to support areas that I know so well. Tackling poverty is essential. However, we need long-term solutions for long-term problems, and we need to tackle the root cause, not just the symptoms. In Swansea, ambition is critical. Swansea Gower needs economic growth. What steps will the Welsh Government take to capitalise on the massive opportunity of the green economy, as suggested by the Skidmore report, and utilising the speciality and specific attributes in Gŵyr Abertawe, including a deep port, specialists in universities and the second highest tidal fall in the world?
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I second that—Anna Nicholl.
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Diolch, First Minister. The economy in Swansea is really struggling. I've recently spoken to two businesses in Gŵyr Abertawe. Both have exactly the same problem: that's an inability to access Government procurement. The first was a ground care company, which just lost a contract to clear coastal paths in Gower to a company from York, which I find an unbelievable decision. And there's a Mumbles-based cleaning company with over 300 employees; it's well established, but has never, ever obtained a single Government contract. Welsh bodies spend over £8 billion a year on procurement. This is almost a third of the entire public expenditure. It is absolutely vital that Welsh businesses, local businesses, have access to this expenditure. It is the foundation of our economy, and access to this is equivalent to having sound foundations in a house. Every £1 that goes through and off the M4 is lost. Will the First Minister please outline the Government's plans to increase the levels for procurement to support local businesses that apply for Government contracts?
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Rhun ap Iorwerth.
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Sources
The Record of Proceedings for each sitting day, quoted verbatim.