I believe animal welfare is important. Many animals are sentient beings, meaning they have the capacity to experience feelings like pain, pleasure and emotional states. The evidence is strongest for mammals and birds, but in recent years researchers have built compelling cases for fish, octopuses, crabs, and even some insects.
Welsh Labour took the decision to ban greyhound racing in Wales on animal welfare grounds, and secured the legislation to deliver the ban. Thank you, Jane Dodds. And while the law allows the ban to take effect between April 2027 and April 2030, I want to see the ban brought into force as soon as practically possible. The transition period was put in place to help deliver the ban safely, with animal welfare at its heart, not to prolong greyhound racing unnecessarily. What action is the Minister taking to bring the ban into force?
Contributions
89 contributions on record. Newest first, by sitting day. Page 1 of 2. Counted by Siambr
- on the clip
- on the clip
We all depend on community pharmacies. There was a pharmacy in Morriston, run by Jhoots, which had a shortage of medicines and where the staff were not paid for several months. In January this year, Jhoots Pharmacy entered administration, with the administrators' statement outlining £19 million of debt. Fortunately, the pharmacy was taken over, and also fortunately, Morriston, where I live, has a large number of pharmacies. This is not true across Gŵyr Abertawe. Pharmacies need more support. I support better publicising of what pharmacies can provide, such as flu vaccines. Will the Welsh Government consider increasing the number of items pharmacies can prescribe? For example, rosacea cream needs a prescription. If we do let pharmacies prescribe more, it will reduce pressure on GP surgeries and help pharmacies.
- on the clip
It's because they have a Labour Government.
- Not timed: the Record publishes no broadcast time for this contribution, so Siambr cannot place it on the stage.
- on the clip
Can I thank the Minister for that reply? Perhaps I ought to say that I used to be a governor at Tycoch and my grandchild goes to Bryn Tawe, so I've got an interest, though not necessarily a financial one. I thought I'd bring that up for the record. One of the issues I think we are all in agreement on is that we do not want young people at 16 to become not in education, employment or training. That means we must have adequate availability of courses in the further education sector. If young people do not continue in education or training at 16, then many will face a life of unemployment. Getting them at 18 to go back into taking up a course is going to be very difficult. Gower College Swansea is doing its best to provide opportunities. I really would like to commend them, and I hope the Minister will as well. Gower College has over-recruited against the numbers funded, but they still have a waiting list for some areas. Will the Minister commit to funding further education so that there is a place in college for every young person who wants it in Swansea, so that we don't have people sitting at home who want to be learning?
- on the clip
Can I thank Gwyn for bringing this before us today? I'm a member of the Socialist Health Association, and committed to a publicly funded and publicly provided health service. The NHS, despite the waiting times and financial pressures, is supported by the vast majority of people in Wales. When you consider the cost of health provision in the USA, the NHS is excellent value for money. In the USA, medical costs are the major cause of personal bankruptcy. I believe in the direct provision of a publicly funded health service by publicly funded and employed health professionals. The private sector see opportunities to profit from the health service, taking the easy-to-provide services, not providing the expensive and difficult-to-provide. I support, wherever possible, delivery of waiting-list initiatives, surgeries and clinics within the NHS rather than through the private sector. The private sector is looking for opportunities to make a profit out of publicly funded health. My aim is a completely directly provided health service with no publicly funded health expenditure leaking out to the private sector. I support increasing surgical activity through weekend and evening clinics, opening new diagnostic and treatment centres and creating more community-based services to reduce hospital demand. We also have the advances in AI giving us analysis and treatment. All health boards should develop costed plans for additional clinic activity from departments within their organisations before considering entering into contracts with private providers. They must empower and trust clinical staff. I think that's one of the big problems we have: a lack of being prepared to trust the clinical staff. The BMA has expressed concern about the increasing role of private healthcare provision in the NHS, particularly regarding the privatisation of NHS services. They argue that private healthcare companies should be held to the same standards as NHS providers, including transparent reporting of patient safety incidents and performance. The BMA supports a new NHS provider selection regime to limit procurement arrangements with independent sector providers and ensure the sustainability of the NHS. They also advocate for better oversight of privatisation and recommend that independent sector providers for NHS services should be subject to the same requirements as NHS providers. I share the concern of many in the health service that increasing the reliance on private providers will erode the NHS's long-term sustainability and will end with us not having a national health service, but a publicly funded health service being used by the public in private hospitals and private areas. And the problem then becomes that the private sector won't want to do accident and emergency. They won't want to do anything that is difficult. They'll want to do the easier-to-deal-with. I think it really is important that we stand up for the NHS, which is what I'm doing now. Can I just, finally, say that the health service is funded to provide services, not as a cash point for the private sector?
- on the clip
If we were starting from scratch now, the M4 would stretch from the bridge over the Severn estuary to Fishguard. The motorway would be three lanes wide for the whole of its length. There would be fewer junctions, and they would be further apart. It was built piecemeal. But we're not starting from scratch, are we? So, what do we intend to do? It's not just around the Brynglas tunnels that we have problems on the M4. For those of us coming in from the west, we have problems around Port Talbot. We have problems around the junction going on to the Heads of Valleys, and then we all join—and I'm sure, if you're driving here, Presiding Officer, you do—coming off the M4 at junction 33. We have all these traffic jams that affect us. So, I'm asking the Welsh Government: why do we always think we're unique? Why do we think that no other country has ever dealt with these sorts of problems? It's happening all the time. Can I mention what's happened in Italy? There's a technique known as the Nazzano method, which allows tunnels to be widened while traffic continues to run through them. Originally developed and successfully implemented in Italy, the Nazzano method allows an existing tunnel to be widened while remaining open to traffic. This technique involves constructing a new, larger tunnel shell around the existing bore, maintaining traffic flows through the works, and then removing the old lining once the new structure is complete. This method has been used internationally on busy motorway tunnels where closure was not feasible, and it has consistently delivered increased capacity. Can I urge the Welsh Government to give some serious thought to that? And it's not just that, is it? [Interruption.] Certainly.
- on the clip
Can I just ask you when the Nazzano method was put forward? I don't remember anybody apart from me having mentioned it. I envisage only widening the tunnels and two short lane carriageways either side. There are other methods—I mean, in Japan, they have the world's first large-scale tunnel widening—[Interruption.] Can I just finish this bit? In Japan, they have the world's first large-scale tunnel widening by shield machines. The rest of the world is widening tunnels. Why can't we? Certainly, Darren.
- on the clip
Well, can I just say, Darren, that you and I would both agree that what happened on the road to Damascus with Saul, who became Paul, was one of the greatest things that ever happened in world history? [Interruption.] So, I wouldn't go criticising that, but I'm just saying, and I've said this several times in the past, and I know Natasha has also talked about widening the tunnels—and without much support around, from you, Darren, for example—but widening the tunnels is an answer. It ought to be given a serious consideration. It doesn't mean driving kilometres through the Gwent levels. It just means widening the motorway going through those tunnels. It's happened in the rest of the world—why can't it happen here?
- on the clip
Diolch. Counsel General, last month, on level 7 apprenticeships, you said, 'What I can tell him, which may cheer him up slightly, is that level 7 apprenticeships at the bar and also solicitors are uppermost in this Government's mind. We are pushing forward on them and, indeed, I shall be making a speech on them in about a fortnight's time, during the Legal Wales conference.' What progress has been made?
- on the clip
Thank you for that answer. I'm sure we'll return to that next month. What I'll also say, of course, on that, is that you've got approximately £200 million underspent, sitting there available, so you could be looking to use some of that. But I want to move on to the tribunal system. I know you said it is also high in your priorities, Counsel General. The proposed new Welsh tribunal structure is intended not only to bring existing devolved tribunals into a more coherent system, but also be capable of taking on additional jurisdiction in the future. Before any additional jurisdiction is transferred into the Welsh tribunal system, what safeguards do you believe need to be in place?
- on the clip
Thank you.
- on the clip
We have a shortage of housing available for rent. Houses that were previously privately rented have been converted into Airbnb properties. This housing shortage is made worse by the growth of Airbnb properties. These Airbnb properties take business away from guest houses and hotels; they create parking problems. It's not just a problem of tourist areas; it affects areas with older terraced housing, as well as properties at the seaside. There is control over houses in multiple occupation concentrations to stop areas becoming HMO areas. We need the same for Airbnb. I'm asking for a Government statement on what action they intend to take to control the growth of Airbnb, or are they going to let it just grow and grow?
- on the clip
All property prices do not move at the same rate; if they did, there would be no problem. No change is baking in unfairness. I've asked previously to base council tax on actual value. I've also previously asked, if we have to have bands, for more at the top and splitting band A. What will happen in the next four years? Why will waiting four years not mean the changes will be bigger? Many of the people who would have had their bands decreased will continue paying at the higher rate. Is that fair? To Reform: bring a debate on council structure.
- on the clip
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to raise a question on esports, which, as most people I think know, is short for electronic sports, which refers to organised competitive video gaming where individuals or teams compete in specific games for prizes, ranking or prestige. Esports have developed from a casual hobby into a structured global industry with leagues, governing bodies, teams, sponsors and dedicated venues. In Wales, the industry is growing rapidly. From my days of being a college lecturer, it was very popular. Esports Wales runs multiple official tournaments throughout the Welsh esports league, and the student esports championships. These events include seasonal leagues, open tournaments and school and college competitions, with structured formats and prize money. Will the Minister dedicate some of the money given to support the creative industries to esports as part of a comprehensive esports strategy?
- on the clip
Thank you very much for that answer. As you may remember, in November 2024, the then Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, Jack Sargeant, took part in a landmark event in the Senedd to promote Wales's thriving esports industry and the Government's commitment to providing the safest and most engaging environment for young gamers. At the event, the Minister said that esports 'is a priority sector for the Welsh Government and I’m keen do all I can to support its growth and gain an international reputation for Wales as a centre for this rapidly growing industry.' Esports Wales have garnered significant success in recent years, with notable achievements, such as winning a gold medal in the Rocket League open competition at the Commonwealth Esports Championships. The team also secured a silver medal in the eFootball women's competition and a bronze in the eFootball open competition. I was very pleased, in the event we had here, to see Peter Fox in action playing esports. Are esports a priority for this Government, and have they a date for another esports event at the Senedd?
- on the clip
I have visited Tŷ Olwen Hospice both as a relative and also as a Senedd representative of the area in which Tŷ Olwen is based. The issue that got me considering palliative care in detail, and hospices, was the assisted dying debate. The lack of adequate palliative care and end-of-life care and that it needs to be improved became immediately apparent. Palliative care offers physical, emotional and practical support to people with a terminal illness; it can be offered at any point after a terminal diagnosis. It was not only those suffering from motor neurone disease and other degenerative diseases who wished for the end-of-life option, but others with conditions who, with good palliative care, could have had a rewarding life. First published in 2022, under a Labour Government, the palliative care quality statement set out high-level Welsh Government policy intentions for children's, young people's and adults' palliative and end-of-life care. The statement described what good-quality palliative and end-of-life care should look like. It listed six quality attributes: safe, timely, effective, person-centred, efficient, equitable. Palliative care and end-of-life care is a critical part of our health and social care system. When it is got right, it can have a profound impact on people living with terminal illnesses and those close to them. Gaps in provision and a system under severe pressure mean that too many people are left without the care and support they need. Demand for palliative care and end-of-life care is growing. Marie Curie estimate that, by 2040, 37,000 people will need palliative and end-of-life care each year. With a system that cannot cope now, unless the Government treats this as a matter of urgency, there is very little chance of meeting future need. Clear leadership from the Welsh Government is needed to address the palliative and end-of-life care system. I support Marie Curie's list of actions for the Government: ensure palliative and end-of-life care services are responsive to people's needs: high-quality care must be available in the right place at the right time in all parts of Wales; the Government must sustainably fund palliative and end-of-life services to meet the needs of all people living with a terminal illness across Wales; develop a palliative and end-of-life workforce that meets the growing need for care; ensure that all health and social care professionals have at least a foundation knowledge of palliative and end-of-life care; tell people living with terminal illnesses that a diagnosis could lead to death, tell them in language they can understand, and ensure people who are deaf, for example, have sign language interpreters available; patients need to be supported to have a conversation about their care preferences and have advance care plans in action; those who are terminally ill and those close to them, such as family, carers and friends, need 24-hour access to care, support and reassurance; ensure that people living with terminal illnesses are discharged from hospital swiftly when they are deemed able to return home; and appropriate support must be in place at the point of discharge, including support to die in their preferred place. This will, as well as benefiting terminally ill patients, free up beds in hospital and end the continual movement of those who are terminally ill into and out of hospital. We cannot allow a postcode lottery for end-of-life care. Wherever you live in Wales, you need the same level of provision. With palliative care, there is a major role carried out by unpaid carers. The needs of unpaid carers have to be assessed and reviewed so that their needs can be met and the support they need can be provided. The difference that high-quality palliative care and end-of-life care can make for people living with a terminal illness, and those close to them, cannot be understated. Too many in Wales cannot access the care they need. What we need is for health boards and trusts to periodically assess palliative and end-of-life care for their local population, then use that to inform service planning and delivery—these assessments to be made publicly available. Health boards must publish a local delivery plan for palliative care. These must set out how they will meet the population need and achieve the ambitions set out in the Welsh Government quality statement. All regional partnership boards must include palliative and end-of-life care leads to provide expert advice and guidance on meeting the needs of people with terminal illness and those close to them. Can I just raise three matters from personal experience? A patient with cancer of the oesophagus who could not swallow was going to literally be left to starve to death until I intervened, and they had six months of a rewarding life by being PEG fed; a terminally ill patient without palliative care who just went in and out of hospital with no palliative-care support; a terminally ill patient left in a nursing home with no palliative support. All this needs funding. There is a need to establish a sustainable funding solution to establish a sustainable palliative care and end-of-life care system that can meet the growing need for care. There doesn't need to be a magic money tree—use unallocated resources, do what matters, instead of things such as a shadow broadcasting and communications authority for Wales. Palliative care and end-of-life care matter to me—do they matter to the Welsh Government?
- on the clip
I've never heard people speak in a debate with so much ignorance. I will just respond to one thing. There's the Welsh purchasing consortium, where local authorities get together to buy things cheaply between themselves. Local government provides many of the key services provided by the public sector in Wales—not just refuse collection, but hundreds of services, from road maintenance to trading standards. No local authority makes increases in council tax because they want to punish their electorate—that would be perverse and self-defeating. Council tax rises are driven by the need to meet demand, meet their statutory obligations and council tax payers' wishes. We must consider that budgetary pressures on local authorities are not a simplistic mathematical exercise. Why 4.99 per cent? I know it makes a good headline. Can Reform publish the calculations behind it? Which services would they consider scrapping? Are they seeking statutory services to be made non-statutory in order for councils to legally stop services? In Reform-led Kent, the budget financial risk register reveals an immediate exposure of £411 million—that's it, £411 million—indicating the scale of uncertainty facing Kent's finances. Risks include potential overspends, underfunded services, the pressure of increasing demand in social care, and infrastructure upkeep. This level of risk raises a question about the council's ability to manage its reserves and avoid more drastic cuts in coming years, gambling with services for the vulnerable and the council's finances. The previous Senedd's Finance Committee received evidence from witnesses about the differential rates at which inflation affects and has an impact on their budgets. Local government in Wales has many financial pressures outside of its control. Education is a major area of expenditure and teachers' pay and pension increases need to be met in full. Education is the key to moving children out of poverty. I want to discuss three major financial pressures on local government in detail. The estimated pressure for local government services for this year was £599 million. Social services alone account for almost half of that, equating to over £200 million all told. The provision of social care is critical to the health and care system operating effectively, and plays a key role in achieving positive health outcomes. Investing in social care leads directly to reducing pressure on the NHS, both in terms of keeping people out of hospital and helping people to return home at the appropriate time, reducing delayed transfers of care. Wales has an ageing population and people are living for longer with complex care needs and dementia. This will continue to increase pressure on care services. The Welsh Local Government Association stress that social services face acute and widening financial challenges, with more than 81,000 people relying on care and support. Care Forum Wales says the sector is under immense strain, grappling with persistent workforce pressures, unsustainable fee rates and increasing employer costs. A committee was shown that fees for nursing care can vary by as much as £9,000 a year between neighbouring authorities. For those who fully fund their own care, so-called 'self-funders', average weekly costs are around £1,156 for residential care and £1,394 for nursing care. The older people's commissioner highlights how funding pressures fall unfairly on service users, with inequitable fee structures and top-up fees leaving many self-funders effectively subsidising publicly funded care home placements. Workforce pressures: staffing pressures remain a major concern, with chronic vacancies and ongoing recruitment and retention difficulties, despite the introduction of the real living wage for social care workers. More than a quarter of domiciliary care workers are on zero-hours contracts. Social Care Wales's workforce survey in 2025 found that one in five social care employees aim to leave the sector within the next 14 months, citing low pay, poor conditions and limited progression. The Welsh Government does not currently publish data on waiting times for social care services, but stakeholders report long and growing delays, including waits for assessment for care packages, equipment and occupational therapy. Age Cymru research found that nearly one in four older people were waiting more than 30 days for a care assessment and one in six were waiting more than 30 days for care to be put in place after the assessment. Another major area of pressure is additional learning needs. We've talked about it a lot here, and everybody was saying how we need more money for additional learning needs. Where do you think it's going to come from? Schools across Wales are at breaking point. A significant number of school budgets are currently in deficit, and, for many, that crisis is driven almost directly—[Interruption.]—by severely underfunded provision. Schools that had substantial surpluses have seen that money used for ALN provision. [Interruption.] If you want to intervene, please do, and I'll try and educate you. The school system failed. [Interruption.]
- on the clip
I can understand—. I understand your position: you want to privatise everything. You want the parents to pay for everything. You want them to pay for everything and you don't want the taxpayer to pay for it. [Interruption.]
- on the clip
Well, we'll find out next May how few of you will survive in local government, and we'll find out in three years' time how few of you are here. Can I suggest you start looking at council by-elections and, if you go back, how long it is since you last won one?
- on the clip
Do you want to go around telling elderly people they can't have home care support because you want to save money?
- on the clip
We've just had the warmest summer of the rest of our lives. According to public documents, we have had more flooding in the first 25 years of the twenty-first century than the whole of the twentieth century. Whilst flooding is not as annually predictable as heat, we'll have more flooding in the next five years than the last five years. You can believe that climate change is not happening, it does not stop it happening or stop the repercussions of it. Will the Government consider taking the following action? Plant trees on higher ground to reduce floods at source; introduce beavers into rivers to create ponds and wetlands that slow down river flow; promote the use of planted areas, rain gardens and permeable paving to allow water to drain away. We're not going to stop the water coming down, but at least we can do something with it.
- on the clip
I'm a Swansea City Association Football Club supporter and I remember the effect that playing in the premiership, winning the league cup and qualifying in Europe had on the image of Swansea. I drove down Mumbles Road one Saturday morning and a huge crowd of Chelsea supporters were walking towards the city centre. They had stayed in Swansea overnight, paid for accommodation, food and drink, helping our economy. The Ospreys, when they have European games against French and English opponents, also generate a substantial number of overnight supporters, with the same effect. Does the First Minister agree with me that the success of professional sport is beneficial for our economy, and that Swansea needs Swansea City back in the premiership and a successful Ospreys team? [Laughter.]
- on the clip
I'm requesting a Government statement on its tourism strategy. A strategy is not saying that tourism is important to the Welsh economy and that we want it. Which tourism sectors does the Welsh Government think are important? How are they going to target groups? How will they distinguish between day tourists and overnight tourists? I would prioritise active tourism, such as hiking, cycling and golf. The question is can we share golf tourism with Ireland. Has anybody asked? I would also prioritise cultural tourism to eisteddfods and historical buildings, including chapels and churches. But we do need a strategy.
- on the clip
Every local authority in Britain can move money into and out of reserves. This includes town and community councils and it actually includes school governing bodies, who can also move money into and out of reserves. No controls, no rules. It's their money, they can spend it or save it. Why is the Welsh Government treated differently? Once money is allocated to Wales or is raised in Wales, the Treasury has no legitimate interest in that money. This is the way they treat Westminster committees and how they treat different spending areas in Westminster. It is not the way to treat a Government. Money is sometimes allocated late in the year, sometimes very late in the year. Money has been claimed back. There is an expectation it could have been carried forward, but that's only an expectation. The rules are really unfair. If not always able to carry it forward, money was claimed back. I did suggest at the time that we should not rely on the Treasury being fair—I don't think anybody's ever thought the Treasury was fair—and that we should actually take the money and spend it. We could give it to local authorities or give it to housing associations without any problem at all. But this is not a way to run a national budget. It does not cost the Treasury any money. Once it's here, it's here, and I don't see why they want to get involved in micromanaging Wales. It has to end. And once the money is allocated, then why does the Treasury want to get involved? It is not their money, they should be leaving us alone. On funding, despite what has been said and believed, Wales does well out of the current system. We receive substantially more than we pay in. Estimates suggest that we collect about 70 per cent to 75 per cent of the per capita income in Wales. We spend about 110 per cent, including central Government expenditure, here in Wales. This is what being part of a larger country means—money is provided to those who need it most. What should a funding system look like? Characteristics of a funding system for subnational Governments that were originally proposed by the Calman commission include: stability and predictability; simplicity and transparency; autonomy; efficiency; equity, so that resources are allocated in a way that takes account of relative need; and accountability, so that the link between decisions made and the tax paid by voters is clear. Any additional tax take within a region should impact on the budget available. The Barnett formula evolved from the Goschen formula, which was designed specifically to preserve Scotland's public expenditure advantage over England. The formula was thus never designed with Wales in mind. Applied rigorously, the formula should have led to convergence in levels of spending per head across the UK. The formula has, however, preserved the spending advantage for Wales over England. There have been periodic adjustments to the operation of the formula since 1980, mainly through relative population changes. These adjustments have increased relative spending levels in Wales. The main advantage of the formula is its simplicity and objectivity as a basis for making spending allocations. There has been notable success in securing formula bypass since devolution. For example, Objective 1 match funding and funding for city deals. Northern Ireland has done substantially better in receiving money in excess of the Barnett formula. Remember, the Barnett formula calculates the minimum to be provided. Anything over and above that is allowed to be provided by the Government if they so desire. We also have the Barnett floor. It was set following the Holtham commission investigation into the needs of Wales. At the 2015 spending review, the UK Conservative Government—see, Sam, I do mention the Conservatives—implemented a funding floor in Wales. This provided a guarantee that the Welsh Government block grant funding per head would not fall below 115 per cent of equivalent spending per head in England. Currently in Wales we get about 120 per cent of the equivalent funding per head in England. With the result of the Holtham review that Wales needs 115 per cent of the equivalent funding per head in England in devolved areas, if we get 120 per cent, we're doing well. Currently, the total budget is £27.5 billion—£22.8 billion in revenue and £3.6 billion in capital. So, if Wales gets its 115 per cent, which is what Holtham said, then we get about £1 billion more than we should be getting, or than would be calculated. So, this idea that Wales is treated very badly by everybody might play well in certain circles, but it doesn't actually play with reality. This needs recalculating. I suggest academics, jointly appointed by the Welsh Government and the Treasury, at five-yearly intervals, should recalculate Wales's need. But remember, there's a danger that Wales will get less. I support additional funding for rail. I have stations in my constituency that we need to be opening and reopening. Would money better be spent on transport in general? We need work doing on bus and rail interchanges. We need to ensure adequate parking near the new stations. What we do not need are rail lines to fulfil the wishes of the few passengers who want to use them.
- Not timed: the Record publishes no broadcast time for this contribution, so Siambr cannot place it on the stage.
2. Sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau y bydd Dechrau'n Deg a'r cynnig gofal plant newydd 20 awr, gyda'i gilydd, yn ddigon hyblyg i gefnogi bywydau gwaith teuluoedd? OQ64565
Official English translation
2. How will the Welsh Government ensure that Flying Start and the new 20-hour childcare offer will together be flexible enough to support families' working lives? OQ64565
- on the clip
Diolch am eich ateb.
Official English translation
Thank you for that response.
- on the clip
Flying Start is a brilliant initiative, despite its flaws. Too many children start nursery with a developmental age of two, while some of the more advanced start with a developmental age approaching four. Some start not toilet trained and with very limited communication and social skills. Flying Start gives an opportunity to narrow that gap and helps build self-esteem so that children start school not as self-defined failures. There have been problems based on the lower super-output areas, where some of the wealthiest in Swansea were in Flying Start areas and some of the poorest were not. Using the Welsh index of multiple deprivation does not work in heterogeneous areas. House prices are a much better indicator. Will the Minister commit to continuing the Flying Start provision and improving on it?
- on the clip
We know there is a crisis of young people not being in education, employment or training, and the long-term scarring impact this has on their future health, earnings and life chances. If they're not in education between 16 and 18, the chance of them joining education after 18 or reaching employment reduces, and reduces rapidly. As a former FE college lecturer and college governor, I welcome the increased participation of young people in further education colleges across Wales. It's very welcome, the rising demand for vocational and technical education. We need plumbers, we need hairdressers, we need electricians, we need decorators. We know we need those. In Britain, there were 981,000 young people aged 16 to 24 not in employment, education or training between April and June, according to the Office for National Statistics. But what shifts have happened there? We've got a lost generation of young people, and they're going to be lost forever unless urgent action is taken. And that really does fall on the Welsh Government to start taking some of this action. What's happened over time has been the composition of this inactive group. The proportion who are inactive due to sickness or disability has more than doubled since 2005. I find it difficult to believe that almost a third of people who were NEETs in 2025 had health problems to such an extent that they were unable to engage in either education, training or employment. Other reasons are people having health and caring responsibilities and those who do not want or need employment. Those who do not want or need employment rose sharply during the same period, to reach 23 per cent of NEETs in 2025. I find it alarming that there will be some, the wealthy—probably sat on the benches opposite us—who actually have no need to work. But there's an awful lot of people who, if they're not in employment, are getting by on benefits. At the same time, the share of young people inactive due to caring reasons has dropped, which is good news, but, again, the unpaid carers who we all meet fairly regularly keep on telling us about the problems. Those aged 16 and 17 who are likely to have been inactive for other reasons over the past few years, what happens then? They don't want to go to school. Lots of people don't want to carry on in school, school isn't for them, but that's not the end of education, that's not the end of training and that doesn't mean that they can never work. We have the Welsh Government's young person's guarantee scheme and that scheme is greatly welcomed. Colleges and private training providers are the only option when direct movement into employment is not available. Private training providers, many of whom do an excellent job, lack capacity to train large numbers of young people. Evidence consistently shows that remaining in education post 16 is critical to young people's long-term life outcomes. It's also a point at which young people face a major decision of continuing in academic education or pursuing vocational education—a choice that can be difficult for those with limited guidance or family support. A lot of this comes down to what type of jobs you know, and most young people, what jobs do they know? They know teachers because they see them every day, they know what their families do, they know what their neighbours do, but there's a whole range of jobs that they know nothing about. A former Member of this Senedd who became a barrister did so because he went on training days with a barrister in Swansea. Now, that's something that is incredibly good, but we can't leave the future of young people to that sort of chance, can we? Many young people want to go to college, and I recognise the financial pressures on colleges, if only because they keep on telling me. But no 16 to 18-year-old should be unable to attend a college because not enough places are funded. For colleges that provide training that is not funded by the Welsh Government, the amount is limited by financial pressure. There is a need for the Welsh Government to fund all the places that are needed. If we don't want NEETs, let's not be the people who create the NEETs by not providing training places for young people. And if young people who cannot get a job or get on a college course become NEET, it's not their fault, it's ours, or should I say, the Welsh Government's. The Government needs to fund further education colleges so that everyone who wants to go to college can go. This is why I support this motion today. It's important that every young person gets the opportunity they deserve.
- on the clip
What we do know is that many of those NEETs are NEETs because they can't get on to an education course in a college. Will you fund all the courses for all those young people who want to go on and stop them being NEETs and get them into education?
- on the clip
Of course, if Wales was an independent country, it would be the one hundred and thirty seventh largest country in world, sandwiched in size between Mongolia and Uruguay. We also know that countries around the world have a GVA—a measure of the value of goods and services produced in the economy—that is lower than that of Wales: Haiti. So why, having identified that Wales is neither too small nor too poor to be independent, do I oppose independence? The primary reason is straightforward, and it rests on both Wales's tax receipts and its GVA. An independent Wales would, based upon published data, be poorer than we are now, with a combination of higher taxes and poorer public services. Plaid Cymru's policy is one of salami-slicing to independence, summed up by 'Devolve, devolve and devolve until there's nothing left to devolve.' Adam Price, when leader of Plaid Cymru, said, 'Plaid Cymru has a simple answer to the challenge posed by Westminster, and that is independence.' Please ignore that Wales is financially a net beneficiary of the union. We know that because David Phillips of the Institute for Fiscal Studies has estimated that Wales is a net beneficiary of the union by between £12 billion and £15 billion a year. If Wales keeps its revenue and funds its own public spending and then makes a population-based contribution for UK-wide situations, at least understand there would be a large fiscal deficit for Wales. Also according to David Phillips of the IFS, the most recent estimates from the ONS suggest that, for public expenditure, Wales is about 10 per cent higher than across the UK as a whole. This is despite raising substantially less money. We know that, in devolved areas, Wales gets 20 per cent more than England. We know the commission chaired by Gerry Holtham said Wales needs 15 per cent more than England. That is the Barnett floor. Funding cannot fall below that level. The finance Cabinet Minister confirmed that the Holtham committee figure was correct. So, when Wales looks at fair funding, Plaid Cymru, it means we want £1 billion less. We also know small countries don't have the economic strength to weather financial storms. For example, in Iceland, between 2008 and 2010, a catastrophic financial crash occurred. This involved the default of all three of the country's major privately owned commercial banks in late 2008, following problems in refinancing their short-term debt and a run on deposits. Relative to the size of its economy, Iceland's systematic banking collapse was the largest of any country in economic history. The crisis led to a severe recession and the mass migration of younger people. That's what happens when you play games. It's not those of us who are of retirement age or near retirement age or settled, it's the young people who are forced to leave because there's no employment for them. I believe in devolution, but not in Welsh independence. We've had seven devolution settlements for Wales, and we're no closer to a long-term settlement than we were before the first. In the UK, we've seen different devolution settlements for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as well as different responsibilities devolved to London and some of the larger city regions of England. There are obvious areas that need to be held centrally within a devolved structure, such as defence, foreign affairs, national security, currency, interest rates, overseas aid, immigration, driver and car licensing, central bank and national insurance numbers. If they are not held centrally, that's called independence. Is there any of those that Plaid Cymru do not want devolved on their journey to independence? If those areas are devolved, well that is independence. Now, should taxation change and there be UK taxes to pay for centrally funded items with all other taxes devolved and collected locally? That's what happens in America for state and national taxes. How will financial support from the wealthier to the poorer regions be organised and maintained? We do not know the direction of devolution. Not everything needs to be devolved to Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or the English city region at the same time. What we should have is a list of items that are available to be devolved, with each Parliament and mayoral area needing at least two thirds of its Members voting in favour for that area to be devolved. This is what happened with policing in Northern Ireland. It was devolved because two thirds of the Northern Ireland Assembly voted for it. This approach avoids big-bang devolution, where control of everything is passed on one day, while still allowing the matter to be devolved as the Parliaments are ready for them and funding is agreed. The advantage of this is that it sets an end point to the devolution journey, outside of creating new countries, and allows each to move at a pace it is comfortable with, with a common end point. Asymmetric devolution hasn't worked in Britain. It didn't work in Spain. Other countries, like Germany and USA, have the same powers devolved. Each US state has the same powers and responsibility, no matter its size. It's the same with each German Land. But devolution in Wales does not have to end in Cardiff. Devolution in Wales is possible to be devolved to the four regions of Wales and to councils. Which powers would be better devolved to local authorities also needs to be discussed and decided. The twentieth century is almost a one-way journey of items being taken off local authorities and then dealt with centrally. And I think, really, we want to do what is best for Wales, not what is best for our political views.
- on the clip
Diolch. What discussion has the Counsel General had with the Law Society regarding securing fully funded level 7 solicitor apprenticeships in Wales? Level 7 solicitor apprenticeships are a well-established route to qualifications in England, allowing aspiring solicitors to earn while they learn and avoid taking on significant tuition debt. In Wales, however, aspiring solicitors still cannot access an equivalent funded route. The uptake of level 7 solicitor apprenticeships in England has grown, with more than 5,000 people starting an apprenticeship between 2018 and 2025. We cannot allow Wales to be left behind, can we?
- on the clip
Thank you very much for that answer. Let's see if I can keep being on a roll. Access to justice is a core component of the rule of law and yet many areas of Wales are facing a growing crisis in access to legal services. Described as legal deserts, these are areas where the presence of solicitors is so limited that people cannot easily obtain legal advice or representation when they need it. The Law Society has produced a report that draws on the latest data available, including solicitor distribution, demographic trends and the impact of legal aid funding pressures. The findings include severe geographic inequality in solicitor density, rising solicitor retirements without adequate replacements, the attrition of legal aid providers, and increasing numbers of unrepresented litigants in civil, criminal and welfare cases. What are the Counsel General's views on this report?
- on the clip
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the update on the building safety programme and the steps the Government is taking to protect leaseholders and ensure that the homes covered by the programme are safe, and those living in them are treated with the fairness and dignity they deserve. This has been a long time coming. My constituents have waited a very long time for this to be resolved. It's created hardship and worry for my constituents. The commitment to provide financial support to leaseholders facing the cost of interim alarm systems required to support the simultaneous evacuation policy is a positive step, but it's an acknowledgement that, despite all the agreements, we have not reached the stage where work is going to be done everywhere in the near future. My constituents living in fear of being another Grenfell want the obligations under the contract to be met, and the Welsh Government needs to get legally enforceable agreements with guaranteed completion dates so that my constituents can sleep safely at night.
- on the clip
Diolch. First of all, can I declare an interest as a member of Seion Newydd chapel? Following on from the question that was asked a few moments ago, Wales is home to some of the most significant historic churches and chapels in Europe. These buildings are not only places of worship; they are centres of community life, landmarks of Welsh history, and an essential part of our cultural inheritance. The withdrawal of the listed places of worship grant scheme has removed about £1 million a year that helped congregations maintain these nationally important buildings, placing additional pressure on communities already struggling to meet rising repair costs. Now that this funding has been lost, do you agree that Wales should establish its own replacement scheme to ensure that our priceless Welsh heritage receives the support it needs for future generations?
- on the clip
Thank you for that. Wales has a long and diverse religious history. We have many famous religious buildings, including Anglican churches, Catholic churches, nonconformist chapels, mosques, Sikh temples, Buddhist temples, synagogues and Hindu temples. I request that the Minister considers two actions: firstly, that a feasibility study on the creation of a museum on religions in Wales is carried out; and secondly that, working with other Cabinet colleagues, the Welsh Government creates a religious tourism plan. Whilst local tour plans exist, I cannot find a complete tour plan, and we've got a number of very important religious buildings, not only in Swansea.
- on the clip
Thank you very much for calling me. I didn't know I was down for this, but—[Laughter.]—that will not stop me making some comments. I think that when we look at budgets and we look at where we are, then it's all about priorities, isn't it? You and I have different priorities. My priority is additional learning needs for children. Yours is to have a Welsh broadcasting authority. You've every right to have those different priorities, but do you understand why we have a different one?
- Not timed: the Record publishes no broadcast time for this contribution, so Siambr cannot place it on the stage.
- on the clip
It's always interesting when you decide where you want to start something, because if you started in 2011, you'd have seen an entirely different figure. But let's not argue over that. Whilst every organisation believes it needs more money, fairness is important. What we know is that in devolved areas, Wales gets 20 per cent more than England for the same service. A commission led by Gerry Holtham calculated that Wales needs 15 per cent more than England for the same service. Wales has a Barnett floor set at that 15 per cent level. What evidence does the Minister have that the Holtham commission was wrong?
- on the clip
I would like to pay tribute to the work of the RSPCA during the summer hot weather and the work that they do to safeguard our pets and animals, especially dogs. Dogs can struggle badly in hot weather because they cool themselves mainly by panting, not sweating like humans. That means that even a warm day can become dangerous, especially for flat-faced breeds such as pugs and bulldogs, older dogs, overweight dogs and those with heart or breathing problems. Owners should always make sure that dogs have constant access to fresh water, shade and a cool place to rest indoors or outside. Walks should be planned for the early morning or late evening when the ground and air are cooler. Hot pavements and asphalt can burn paws quickly, so it is wise to test the surface before going out. Dogs should never be left in a parked car, conservatory or other enclosed hot space, even for a few minutes, because temperatures can rise to fatal levels very fast. Grooming can also help in summer, but dogs should not usually be shaved without veterinary advice, as their coats can protect them from both sun and overheating. It is also important to know the signs of heatstroke: heavy panting, drooling, weakness, vomiting, confusion and collapse, which are all warning signs that need urgent veterinary attention. If a dog seems overheated, move it to a cooler area, offer water and contact a vet immediately. The RSPCA in Wales deserves real praise for promoting practical, compassionate advice on dog welfare during hot weather. Its guidance is clear, accessible and focused on prevention, helping owners to understand simple but life-saving steps. By raising awareness about heatstroke, hot cars and safe summer care, the RSPCA continues to play an important role in protecting dogs across Wales.
- on the clip
There's a shortage of housing available for renting. There's an even greater shortage of housing available at affordable rents. The long-term solution is to build more social housing, especially council housing. I have supported rent controls and the return of rent officers for privately rented properties. But we now have a new, very serious problem, Airbnb, which is taking properties out of the private rented sector. This is not a seaside and holiday resort problem only. It is also a problem in cities. What action is the Welsh Government going to take to limit Airbnb in each council area?
- Not timed: the Record publishes no broadcast time for this contribution, so Siambr cannot place it on the stage.
- on the clip
I only wish that was true. There are no NHS jobs for three in 10 nurses graduating in Wales this summer. No-one has told me the wards have too many nurses; many have told me that the wards they have been treated on or visited patients needed more nurses. Student nurses have said they've felt let down, worried and angry after years of unpaid work in the NHS during training and taking out large loans to qualify. Will the health Minister provide, as requested by the Royal College of Nursing, a jobs guarantee for nursing graduates? And you'll want to know where the money is coming from: there's £247 million unallocated, and we only wanted £100 million of that for additional learning needs.
- on the clip
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I will be under a minute. When we discussed the current budget during the last Senedd, there was widespread support from Plaid Cymru, including you, Minister, that local government has substantial pressures. We overcame the ludicrous idea of a former finance Minister that the consumer price index indicated local government inflation, as if the change in price of items such as hummus, alcohol-free beer, pet grooming, motor homes, dashboard cameras, sheets of wrapping paper and bottled premium lager affected the cost of running local government services. It is my understanding that the areas of local government expenditure on additional learning needs, social services, including elderly care and childcare, homelessness and prevention services are causing pressure on council budgets. Minister, is that your understanding, or do you wish to change that list?
- on the clip
Thank you for that answer; it was longer than I expected. We have agreed there is an increasing demand for certain council services. There are also environmental health and trading standards—vital services that need to be supported. Things like food safety and trading standards protect consumers. Minister, how much extra money have you and fellow Ministers asked for from the finance Minister to meet this increased demand out of the £247 million unallocated?
- on the clip
[Inaudible.]—now?
- on the clip
On legislation, I always think about how comprehensive education was initially brought in following a Department for Education and Science circular by Anthony Crosland—no legislation. I'm a member of the Co-operative Party, who have long campaigned for a community right-to-buy scheme, and I support legislation to enable eligible community groups to nominate and register valuable community assets and be given the right to first refusal when the owner decides to sell. Far too many community buildings are left to deteriorate, and community action could stop some of these becoming derelict. Is any funding going to be made available to help these community purchases? I also want us to leave a greener legacy for generations to come, and I welcome the environmental proposal to support developing a climate and nature action plan. What I will ask, though, on animals, is: will the proposed legislation provide additional support for animals in Wales? And again I ask for legislation to stop the private ownership of primates. I note in the First Minister's statement that control over water runs far deeper in Wales's collective memory than it being seen merely as a matter of policy or regulation. Your economy Minister joined me in the last Senedd in supporting the public ownership of water. Will the Welsh Government consider nationalising Welsh Water? Finally, on the economy, will the Welsh Government consider funding university research in computing and life sciences and the spin-offs that come from it?
- on the clip
I agree with your last point, Darren. What I don't agree with is describing Plaid Cymru as a left-wing party.
- on the clip
If you offer £120 million this year, I can guarantee Labour will vote for it.
How this page is made
Counted by Siambr from the Record's rows. Chaired contributions, spoken under the Record's title for the chair, are counted apart and never added in.
Each page holds 50 contributions at most and keeps a sitting day whole, unless the day alone is over 50.
Sources
The Record of Proceedings for each sitting day, quoted verbatim.