My thanks to Sara for tabling this motion today and for inviting me to be a co-submitter. During the recent Senedd campaign, I'm sure like many candidates across Wales, I received the greatest number of campaign e-mails to me in response to the Sands pledge to save babies' lives and improve the care and support for parents. So, my thanks to Sands. It was a really successful piece of lobbying, which has paid off in terms of today's debate, and I hope will pay off in terms of Government action too. I'd also like to thank all those constituents who reached out to their prospective representatives calling for change and often sharing the most heartbreaking stories.
I believe, in today's debate, there will, rightly, be a lot of duplication of key points, and I'll try not to cover the same ground as Sara did, but I do want to go back to that story that Sara started the debate with, about our constituents Brooke, Wil and their son Gwilym. This is crucial because, when we have such a strong statistical evidence base, it is all too easy to lose sight of what a debate is about. This is about, as Sara said, families losing babies during pregnancy or shortly after birth, lives being transformed in an awful and overwhelming way, and then the support needed at this terrible moment just not being there. I've met with Brooke and have been struck by her courage and the way that she is using her experience and the memory of Gwilym to make things better for others, particularly around that support that parents affected by bereavement can and should expect.
One aspect of that is how parents can get answers as to why this traumatic and awful event has happened. A report earlier this year from the Royal College of Pathologists said that paediatric and perinatal pathology is in crisis. Two out of five consultant PPP posts in the UK are vacant, and there are just 46 full-time PPP consultants in the whole of Britain, and only two covering Wales. This leads to longer turnaround, longer periods just waiting for answers, with one in five recently bereaved parents now routinely waiting six months or more for post-mortem results.
However, it is also about the support that parents access after this loss. In my own local health board, I understand there is not currently a specialist bereavement counsellor in place. What makes this particularly inexplicable to me is that having this role in place shouldn't be radical or revolutionary or out of the ordinary. Sadly, that is even more the case when we recall the breakdown in maternity services in the former Cwm Taf health board some years ago. The review that went on into that was a really thorough piece of work. Families contributed, sharing their experiences and dredging up their deepest psychological traumas. There were some positive outcomes from that. I'm thinking of the Primrose suite in Prince Charles Hospital, a specially designed room with caring, dedicated and protective staff who guide the family through their loss. But the overall picture still is that there are problems that just shouldn't be there. I've raised the lack of a specialist bereavement counsellor with Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board, but I'm also keen that Welsh Government ensures sufficient support across Wales too. This is a point captured in our motion and one that's really crucial to drive change and make things better across Wales. Indeed, a really stark figure from Sands is that only 5 per cent of bereaved parents in Wales could access the mental health support that they wanted and needed through the NHS.
It's not right that Cardiff and Vale is the only health board providing a specialist psychological support pathway for pregnancy and baby loss. I've written to the Welsh Government about this, and I look forward to the reply from the Deputy Minister for Social Care, Mental Health and Women's Health. Although, if you want to cover that in your response to the debate today, I know that bereaved families watching would really appreciate it.
Finally, I just want to mention the motion on baby loss carried by the TUC congress in 2024, which was brought by Rhondda Cynon Taff's Trades Union Council. This aimed to tackle the loophole whereby there was no support for parents who had lost a baby up to 24 weeks gestation. That motion was carried unanimously, and the TUC has worked with the GMB—for the record, that is the trade union of which I am a member—to develop a baby loss policy. This aims to provide support but also challenge stigma. I would be hopeful that the Welsh Government could work with the devolved public sector to embed this policy here in Wales. It is being done in England, and it would be good if that was something that we could do here. Diolch.
Contributions
70 contributions on record. Newest first, by sitting day. Page 2 of 2. Counted by Siambr
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I move.
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Apologies, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you. I formally move the amendment tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle. As I do, as we gather here in this extreme heat, I think we can all agree that water is at the forefront of our minds, whether it's water for the garden, water for farm crops or water to cool down in. Water is essential for life and it is also part of our identity here in Wales. Our rivers have a unique place in our hearts, but they also perform a necessary function in enabling nature to thrive. If we are to meet biodiversity and nature recovery targets, they are vital. Since the Tories privatised the water industry in an ideological crusade in 1989, we cannot say that things have got better for our rivers. We can and must do better to regulate, and I'm pleased that we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to right past wrongs with a fundamental reset of water governance in Wales. Our Welsh Labour and UK Labour Governments have laid the groundwork for this. We recognise the urgency of cleaning up our rivers and seas and improving our water system. We also recognise this is something for which there is overwhelming public demand, as recent polling for the WWF has emphasised. Last year, both Governments jointly established the Independent Water Commission to undertake the most comprehensive examination of the water sector since privatisation. It told us that the current system is too complex. It lacks the transparency and responsiveness people expect. I think we can all agree on this. That's why we support the creation of a new Welsh economic water regulator, with the authority and independence to act decisively for Wales. We need to strengthen accountability, rebuild trust and create a system that is simpler, stronger and more transparent. We want to see that new water watchdog underpinned by new legislation and a modern regulatory framework that encourages investment and drives a water system that works for Wales. In our manifesto, we said we wanted to introduce a clean water Bill for Wales to address all forms of water pollution, not just in our rivers, but in our seas also. Many voices in this Siambr today will no doubt make similar calls. And we must go further in addressing the causes of this pollution. Will the Plaid Cymru Government urge Dŵr Cymru and Hafren Dyfrdwy to prioritise investment to tackle the scourge of sewage pollution? But it's not just the water companies that pollute our rivers. We want to reduce agricultural pollution, which harms water quality. The control of agricultural pollution regulations are designed for this purpose. So we urge this Plaid Cymru Government to adhere to all the recommendations of Dr Susannah Bolton's independent review of the control of agricultural pollution regulations and increase enforcement of these regulations. It's important to note that Dr Bolton did not recommend removing closed periods at this time, and highlighted that any alternative developed should require a farm to, and I quote, 'demonstrate there is a crop need for the nutrients being applied and the risk of nutrient losses to water is minimal.'
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Yes, absolutely, James. Thank you for the intervention. I take your point on board. In fact, when I was a member of the agriculture and environment committee, we undertook a really interesting visit to see some of these new forms of technology in action. We absolutely support them. It's just really important that we ensure that they are fit and ready for purpose before we move to that form of ending the closed periods. Alternatives that meet this bar then, as quoted from Dr Bolton, present technical, financial and regulatory challenges for Government agencies and farmers at the moment, and, on this point, we must remember that reducing nutrient run-off or the need for overapplication actually improves the financial resilience of farm businesses too. Wastage of available nitrogen resources costs our farmers approximately £21 to £52 per hectare per year in fertiliser costs. Lastly, I want to turn to the final part of our motion, namely support for citizen scientists, who can be so valuable in monitoring river pollution. There are groups right across Wales, including Friends of the River Wye, who are doing a great job in collecting that data. They say—and I agree—that we need better monitoring to find out where nutrients, particularly phosphates, are entering our watercourses, so that we can identity pollution hotspots and use that information to drive change to clean up our rivers. We need to better engage with citizen science groups and a wider range of partners in a system-based approach to restore our rivers through catchment level management. People across Wales want the Government to clean up our rivers and seas, and we believe this Welsh Labour amendment goes far further than the proposals from other parties towards achieving just that. Diolch.
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Thank you, Minister, for your statement on your priorities within your portfolio, and I look forward to playing my role in scrutinising you, with a glass half full, to get the best for our country, supporting you where we agree, but challenging you robustly when needed. So, to start with, then, I note your comments around coal tips and contaminated land, and I'm pleased that they are in your list of priorities, as they are also priorities for so many of my constituents who live in the shadow of our industrial legacy. You mentioned the UK Government, and I note that this Welsh Government's promises for the first 100 days included a similar call to press the UK Government on environmental justice for coalfield communities and funding for restoring coal tips and contaminated land—so, virtually word for word there. So, I'd like to ask what conversations you've had with the UK Government about this, and are you planning to schedule a meeting about this before the end of August, which would mark that 100-day point? Similarly, I want to refer back to your answer to my question earlier this month on mining legacy sites, such as opencast. I asked if you would take forward the work that the previous Welsh Government had started and if you would ensure that stakeholders and local residents were involved in the process. I was really pleased with your positive answer to my question and I hope you agree to all of my requests in a similar manner. I recently met with constituents living near Ffos-y-fran in Merthyr to discuss the impact that living near this opencast site has on their lives and on their well-being. So, Minister, can you sketch out how you will ensure that local residents are fully involved in this work, and also how groups advocating on their behalf, such as Coal Action Network, are not only involved as stakeholders, but are called on to really help shape the process? Another issue affecting all of our communities, of course, is how we respond to flooding, and I note your plans around the flood resilience and preparedness forum for Wales. My constituency is no stranger to flooding, and, indeed, I've worked closely with the residents of Clydach Terrace in Ynysybwl, whose homes were recently purchased by Rhondda Cynon Taf council, enabling them to move to safer grounds. So, I know, first-hand, how important it is that any talk in this Chamber is backed up by the investment needed to make sure that the people we represent feel safe and are safe. The previous Welsh Government set a record-breaking level of funding for flood defences in the last budget, with 52,000 properties protected from flooding. So, will this Government commit to maintaining that funding level as a minimum for the rest of this Senedd term? Finally, I want to turn to another issue that I've raised with you, about how we tackle bovine TB. The tone of that answer and the suggestion that the approach taken by the previous Welsh Government did not work is, I believe, incorrect and does need challenging. I know that you don’t want to focus on emotive issues like needlessly slaughtering potentially thousands of a protected species—and I should declare an interest here as a member of the Badger Trust—and I know that you said you want to focus on the science, and I really do welcome that, as the science shows that the approach of the previous Welsh Government was actually working. Data published on 17 June shows a decrease of 23 per cent in relation to new herd instances in Wales covering the 12 months to March 2026. The number of animals slaughtered also decreased by 21 per cent over the same period, and the number of new herd incidence of bTB has declined by over 40 per cent since 2010. So, according to the latest quarterly data, herd prevalence is currently at its lowest value since January 2017, and almost 95 per cent of herds in Wales are now currently free from bTB. So, this shows that our programme was working. So, again, will you commit to following the science—all of the science—especially with your statement's rhetoric around nature, our environment and supporting thriving ecosystems? Diolch.
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Cabinet Minister, I'd like to start by placing on record my thanks to the tremendous stroke staff working at Cwm Taf Morgannwg. A close family member of mine was recently treated at Prince Charles Hospital for a stroke, and they received excellent compassionate care and follow-up. I think it's important that, while we remember the acute stroke unit has been moved from Prince Charles, the hospital's emergency department is still able to treat those attending with stroke or suspected stroke. This could make all the difference. Can I ask you, Minister, to work with the health board to make sure that that message is out there loud and clear in case of emergency?
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7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog Cabinet ddatganiad am yr anghydfod diwydiannol parhaus gan ymwelwyr iechyd ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg? OQ64134
Official English translation
7. Will the Cabinet Minister make a statement on the ongoing industrial dispute by health visitors within Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board? OQ64134
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Minister, I and my Welsh Labour colleagues stand in solidarity with the health visitors in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, who play an invaluable role in supporting families. They want to be back in the job that they love. Welsh Labour Senedd Members and MPs have written jointly to the health board, urging them to get back around the table and work in social partnership to resolve this dispute. But this isn't just a local issue. My office has checked with other health boards about how they pay their health visitors. One is evaluating the job role. Three use various bandings, which, in one case, vary from 'Agenda for Change' band 5 to 8B. But two others only pay health visitors at band 6, the banding that has ignited industrial action in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, which is now, of course, in its seventeenth week. So, clearly, we need a Wales-wide approach, so that health visitors get the pay and banding they deserve, that their role, education and experience actually show they deserve, and that they can get back to work supporting families. So, will you make a Wales-wide solution to this a priority?
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June is Pride Month, the annual celebration of LGBTQ+ identities. The original Pride marches were held to commemorate the Stonewall riots in New York city in 1969. Events are now held around the world across the year. This year's theme for all of us focuses on unity, inclusion and advocacy for marginalised LGBTQ+ groups. It's also a powerful reminder that Pride Month is both a celebration and a call to action. This is especially true when we see LGBTQ+ identities being threatened around the world. Our trans brothers and sisters are particularly vulnerable. I am proud of what Welsh Labour delivered in Government: the LGBTQ+ action plan, expanding free post-exposure prophylaxis, supporting Pride events. But there is always more that we can and must do. Last Saturday saw Pride Cymru being held here in Cardiff. Thousands of people came along to rejoice, to be themselves and also to boost the local economy. With this year's theme, we are reminded that grass-roots Pride organisations are more important than ever, giving people visibility in their own communities and ensuring a safe space for all wherever you live in Wales. In my constituency we will celebrate Rhondda Cynon Taf Pride on 25 July in Ynysangharad park and Merthyr Pride, three weeks later, on 15 August. To all the volunteers who make this happen, thank you for what you do for all of us.
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The motion before us today is an important topic, and one that cuts to the heart of how citizens can and should expect a modern democracy to work in practice to ensure decisions are made for the right reasons, that they are taken transparently and with the best interests of our country at heart and not as a result of undue influence, money or corruption. As we look to make sure this is the case, that our democracy is fit for purpose, it's important to remember, as noted by my colleague Huw Thomas and Peredur Owen Griffiths, that we're not starting with a blank slate here. This is a point captured in the Welsh Labour amendment tabled in the name of my colleague Lynne Neagle, and that notes the work carried out in the last Senedd term by the Standards of Conduct Committee. In reflecting on this, I just want to draw on my own experience as Chair of that committee for the first three years of the term. So, as a committee, we started to look at lobbying early on, but then we folded that into a wider inquiry around individual Member accountability. And in May 2024, we responded to a request for a register of lobbyists in Wales. Now, this work hadn't been completed by the time I left the committee later that year, but I did follow the progress of it with interest. I think we need to remember one key point in all of this, and that's the fact that Wales has got a large number of really small charities that frequently want to reach out to Members of this Senedd on issues close to their heart. I recall that some concerns had been raised that any register could serve as a deterrent to smaller charitable organisations who could struggle with the bureaucracy and the costs that may be put in place. So, safeguards will definitely need to be taken forward on any register of lobbyists to ensure that there are no unintended consequences whereby, for example, a small charity might feel it has to pay for a lobbyist to take up advocacy on their behalf. I'm sure that's something we could all agree we wouldn't want to see. So, I welcome the previous Standards of Conduct Committee identifying that we need an improved definition that better distinguishes between lobbying and advocacy. Now, this recognises, of course, that, as other Members have alluded to, lobbying can be a positive thing, deepening understanding, sharpening policy and capturing that lived experience, but it has to be carried out in a way that is transparent and accountable. These are issues set out in the committee's legacy report, and I hope that the new Standards of Conduct Committee will take them forward in due course. As we are electing a Chair of the next standards committee this afternoon, I hope that the candidates for Chair will bear these points in mind. I was interested also that the legacy report called for the committee to consider within this context further work around the question of donations. Now, this is critical. So, alongside my thanks to Reform UK Ltd for tabling this motion, I will also express an element of surprise at the motion that they've tabled today. The leader of Reform UK Ltd, its former majority shareholder, is well known for racking up a staggering sum in donations; I understand it's in excess of £2 million since he became an MP. That's not including the £5 million 'gift' from Christopher Harborne prior to the 2024 general election, which Mr Farage seemed to forget all about. So, to close, I do welcome Reform UK Ltd's new scrutiny of the influence of money on politics and, in that purpose, I hope that all parties can work together to make sure we get this right. Diolch.
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Trefnydd, can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care on the MBRRACE-UK 'state of the nation' report that was published last week, which shows that Wales has recorded the highest stillbirth rate in the UK for the third consecutive year, and, between 2022 and 2024, had the highest combined rate of stillbirths and neonatal deaths across all four of the UK nations? Given these concerning findings, what specific actions is the Welsh Government taking to reduce stillbirths and neonatal deaths and improve outcomes for babies and families in Wales?
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Four and a half million free school meals for primary pupils served in Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr Tydfil, 55,000 school holiday enrichment programme places, the child poverty innovation and supporting communities grant, the pupil development grant, the discretionary assistance fund and universal access to Flying Start: since 2022, over £7 billion has been spent on these and other schemes by the Welsh Labour Government, making a real difference to tackling child poverty and improving the lives of children and families across Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr. Cabinet Minister, I know so many families and children who've benefited personally from these. So, Deputy First Minister, will you commit to maintain these policies and, importantly, their funding?
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Minister, as you will know, our country's industrial legacy means that there are over 2,500 coal tips in Wales, of which around 14 per cent are in the highest risk category and in need of the most frequent monitoring. Many of these are in close proximity to homes, and one of the priorities of the previous Welsh Labour Government was to make these safe by investing £220 million and developing the first law in the UK to protect communities. Work has started on turning mining legacy sites such as opencast sites into community assets, and I know you will be familiar with this from your former role as Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee. So, will you commit to continuing this work of turning mining legacy sites into community assets? And equally importantly, if you do take it forward, will you make sure that the voices of people living in the shadow of these sites, and the stakeholders advocating on their behalf, will be heard centrally within this process?
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Diolch, Minister. And I hope for a similar swift answer to my second question. And for that question, I should declare an interest as a member of the Badger Trust. So, I am, of course, turning to the worrying news that part of this Welsh Government's response to bovine TB could be the slaughter of this protected species. Polling shows over 60 per cent of people in Wales oppose a badger cull, so, unlike the First Minister yesterday, I do consider this to be a serious question that we need to engage with. The First Minister did say yesterday that the Government would follow the science. Much of that science shows that culling badgers is not the answer. Take, for example, the study published in Royal Society Open Science last year that said that the review of the 2006 randomised badger culling trial, which forms the justification of culling as a policy, was actually based on error. So, will you, Minister, commit to fully considering all of the science, including the overwhelming amount of data that says that culling badgers is not the answer?
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I'd like to thank you, Minister, for your statement today and welcome you to your new role. The transport role, of course, holds particular responsibility. It's not just about how we get from A to B, it's also key to investment into Wales. We need road networks that don't hold people up, buses that support people getting to work, an accessible train network, a national airport to raise Wales's global profile and attract inward investment, and we need to ensure that our active travel infrastructure works right across Wales. That's why I'm proud of the work of the last Welsh Government. The Menai bridge crossing will rightly be a concern to many, not only those living on Ynys Môn, but those working across the island and relying on the port of Holyhead. So, I welcome your early statement on this topic, but, crucially, we need some firm commitments. You talk of the Government acting with urgency and a focus on short-term measures and long-term solutions. Can you therefore tell me: will the bridge work be completed before spring 2027, as had previously been planned for by the last Welsh Government? Moving on to the M4, I'm pleased to hear that you'll be using an evidence-based way forward, as was previously commissioned by my colleague Ken Skates. So, will you be sticking to the time frame for the roads reliance review to report this summer? Can you inform us of any junction closures that will be necessary on the M4 with measures to improve flow and resilience on that existing network? Will you commit to better integration between strategic and local transport systems that won't lead to more traffic and therefore more pollution on local roads? And finally, as ever, commitments require funding. What assessment has your Government made of the costs required, and where will this funding be drawn from?
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Trefnydd, I'd like to welcome you to your new role. Along with environmental campaigners, I was very concerned to hear the recent comments from the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on slurry spreading. The regulations that are in place were brought in by the previous Welsh Government because of the very real threat of climate change and the failure of attempts to protect our waterways through voluntary measures. When so many of your Government's promises seem to be getting kicked into the long grass, it's really concerning that priority has been given to measures that can only damage our environment. So, please, could we have a statement from the Cabinet Minister giving the real detail on what this means and how water quality will be protected? In addition, on the same matter, I do find it really disappointing that Senedd protocol was not followed and that this news was announced to the media before MSs had a chance to properly scrutinise it. The regulations that are in place were voted on by the previous Senedd, so it's only right that any changes should be considered here first. With that in mind, could I also request a statement from the Welsh Government on how it will ensure announcements are made here and subject to the appropriate scrutiny, going forward?
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Thank you, Cabinet Minister, for your statement. I'd like to welcome you to your role. I know from working with you previously on the economy committee that this is a portfolio area that you are truly passionate about. I'd like to focus on energy. We've all seen how rocketing energy bills are having a devastating effect on family finances across Wales because of unstable global markets, so it's more important than ever that we produce the home-grown, clean energy that we need, faster than ever before. Building on a point raised by my colleague Shav Taj, we know that Plaid Cymru have said that they would prohibit large steel lattice pylons immediately. Now, we all want to protect our landscapes—let's be clear on that—but this immediate approach risks making it slower, less attractive and more expensive to produce the clean energy that we need. So, I do believe there are crucial questions for this Plaid Cymru Government to answer. Can you guarantee that the cost of this new infrastructure won't be passed on to consumers in even higher energy bills? And can you guarantee that we will meet our legally binding target of 100 per cent of electricity from renewables by 2040, with these limits in place?
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Abstain.
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Abstain.
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Sources
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